Oh very good, your chart is accurate. I just wanted to point out that based on the years you have for T.32 Rabbi David Segal / Stern 1690 - 1760 and T4.2 Rabbi Tzvi Hirsch Segal Stern 1767-1803 it is clear that there is a generation missing because otherwise you have Tzvi Hirsch born 7 years after his father died. As you mentioned in footnote 3, I found that there should be an extra generation between the two, as it seems from the attached document that Tzvi Hirsch is the son of Avraham HaLevi Stern who was the son of David Stern.
Also, just to correct something in footnote 5, Rav Reuven Chaim Klein author of Shenos Chaim did not die near Munaktch, rather he died in Vienna where is buried (as you yourself wrote). Also Avedkaf is a typo, it should said Davidkoff or something like that.
I (T12.1), by the way, have 3 sons and 1 daughter by now.
Do you use Geni.com at all? All of this information plus more is on Geni, I can send you links if need be...
Also, just to correct something in footnote 5, Rav Reuven Chaim Klein author of Shenos Chaim did not die near Munaktch, rather he died in Vienna where is buried (as you yourself wrote). Also Avedkaf is a typo, it should said Davidkoff or something like that.
I (T12.1), by the way, have 3 sons and 1 daughter by now.
Do you use Geni.com at all? All of this information plus more is on Geni, I can send you links if need be...
Zei Gezunt & Kol Tuv,
Reuven Chaim Klein
Beitar Illit, Israel
Author of: God versus Gods: Judaism in the Age of Idolatry (NEW!) & Lashon HaKodesh: History, Holiness, & Hebrew
ORCiD | LinkedIN | Google Scholar | Amazon
On Thu, Apr 30, 2020 at 8:50 PM <roys18@aol.com> wrote:
What problem were we working on? Was it...."Charna that married Binyamin Eliezer was not the father of the Shenos Chaim, but was a son of his. That son was the one who lived in Svalyava, not the father. AFAIK, the father lived in Krakow."
Possibly..Are we mixing up several people in this question?Check out chart below......T7.1 was Rabbi Reuven Chaim Klein the son of T6.1 {female} Segal who married Rabbi Binyamin Eliezer Unger Auerbach.But T7.1 Rabbi Reuven Chaim Klein also had a son T8.4C Benyamin Eliezer Klein 1850 - 10 August 1917 (22 Av 5677) married C) Charna Kallush from Rafada
So 2 Binyamin Eliezers.1) T8.4C Benyamin Eliezer Klein was the son of Reuven Klein as stated in above questionBUT2) you want to know about Charna that married T7.1 Rabbi Reuven Chaim Klein, Shenos ChaimMaybe this Charna by mistake was stated as wife of T7.1 Rabbi Reuven Chaim Klein, Shenos ChaimBUT is actually the known Charna who was the 3rd wife of T8.4C Benyamin Eliezer Klein 1850 - 10 August 1917 (22 Av 5677) who married C) Charna Kallush from Rafada
Doesn't actually confirm anything but does it give you another question??Take careStay safeRoy Schmukler
P.S. The latest info of your connection is below
Chapter 5B – Descendants of TaZ' (1586 – 1667) son - T2.6 Rabbi Shmuel's (1645 - 1715) son –T3.2 R. David (1690 - 1760)
T3.2 Rabbi David Segal / Stern 1690 - 1760T4.2 Rabbi Tzvi Hirsch Segal Stern 1767-1803 (Rabbi Tzvi Hirsch Lichtig HaLevi Stern) (called Reb Hershele Litzas) ABD Ambrova near Trani, which is where he is buried[1] [2] [3]. Rabbi Tzvi married Leitza, a descendent of Rabbi Mordechai Jaffe 1530 Prague – 26 February 1612 Poznzn (the Ba'al Halevushim) son of Avraham son of Yosef JaffeT5.1 Rabbi Yaakov Segal Litzas (Lebenheim) 1780-1818, ABD Wohlbrum, Polin, Rosh ABD Krakow[4]T6.1 {female} Segal married Rabbi Binyamin Eliezer Unger Auerbach[5] 1826 Cracow – 1873 Davidkof. Lived in SvalyavaT7.1 Rabbi Reuven Chaim Klein[6], Shenos Chaim[7] 1831 Mukacheve – 21 January 1873 Vienna (22 Tevet 5633) ABD Avedkaf, married Miriam Greenberger daughter of Tzvi Dov Greenberger (She had a brother Moshe Greenberger who married Frimeth Roth d.1904 {issue were Yitzchak, Zev, Tzvi Dov and Mala} and had a sister Zissel who married Naftoli Simcha Ackerman {issue were Yehuda Leibish, Chay and one more child}). Rabbi Reuven Chaim Klein was the Chief Rabbi of Nove Davydkovo (Uj-Dávidháza), Ukraine. He also authored the work "Shenos Chaim" in 1871 Lemberg, a commentary to Rabbeinu Yerucham.T8.4C Benyamin Eliezer Klein 1850 - 10 August 1917 (22 Av 5677) married C) Charna Kallush from RafadaT9.3 Mordechai Klein d.1916 married Chaya Zlata Friedman (her second marriage was to Shlomo Mermelstein) 1885 – 1934 daughter of Eliezer Friedman. Chaya Zlata was also a descendant of the Noam Elimelech through her mother Devorah Eckstein.T10.2 Randolph "Reuven Chaim" Klein 13 October 1912 -10 July 1968 (14 Tammuz 5728) married Sprintza Shoshana Kuttner d. 9 Iyyar 5777T11.1 "Michael" Mordechai Meir Klein married "Edith" Bracha Messinger daughter of David son of Baruch son of David Messinger (and Chana Zaidler) of Galanta Hungary.T12.1 Reuven Chaim Klein[8] of Los Angeles b. 4 September 1987 married …… Issue two sonsT12.2 Pinchus Ezriel KleinT12.3 Yerucham Shimon Klein
[1] See Sefer Klilas Yofi page 131.[8] Founder of www.Kleinfamilygenealogy.blogspot and one of the major sources of this branch[2] Information for this branch was taken from Klein Family Genealogical Website, from an email written by Rabbi Tzvi Steinberg, Kahal Zera Avraham, Denver Colorado USA and also from www.geni.com[3] Reuven Chaim Klein states that in Otzar HaChochma there is an additional generation and Tzvi Hirsch is the son of Rabbi Avrohom HaLevi Stern son of Rabbi David Stern son of Rabbi Shmuel Son of the TaZ[4] Mentioned in Klilas Yofi (p.60) and is also mentioned by the Chasam Sofer in Teshuos Chasam Sofer Chadashos, Yoreh Deah Siman 17.[5] From an email 26 March 2004 written by Leslie Reich on www.Kleinfamilygenealogy.blogspot: "According to Chachmei Hungaria (by YY Cohen- Jerusalem 1997 p.356) R' Reuven Chaim son of Binyomin Eliezer was born in 1826 and died in Davidkof (spelling?) near Muncasz in 1873. His family name had originally been Ungar or Auerbach but orphaned at an early age, adopted a new name. Curiously, Freedberg's bibliographical dictionary has yet another surname for him. (I suspect a copying error)."[6] According to Chachmei Hungaria (by YY Cohen- Jeruslem 1997 p356), his name was originally Ungar or Auerbach but being orphaned at an early age, adopted a new name[7] Also a descendent of the Rema
-----Original Message-----
From: RC Klein <yeshivish@gmail.com>
To: roys18@aol.com
Sent: Thu, Apr 30, 2020 8:00 am
Subject: Re: [ravsig] The Rabbi of Wolbrom's Daughter
Did we ever get down to the bottom of this?
Zei Gezunt & Kol Tuv,Reuven Chaim KleinBeitar Illit, Israel
On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 8:19 AM RC Klein <yeshivish@gmail.com> wrote:lol
Gmar Chasimah Tovah,Reuven Chaim KleinBeitar Illit, Israel
On Fri, Oct 4, 2019 at 6:41 AM <roys18@aol.com> wrote:I was 41 yrs old - more than 2 1/2 times your age.Now I am 65 - just over twice your age.If we talk much longer, you will pass meLOL
-----Original Message-----
From: RC Klein <yeshivish@gmail.com>
To: roys18 <roys18@aol.com>
Sent: Thu, Oct 3, 2019 1:54 pm
Subject: Re: [ravsig] The Rabbi of Wolbrom's Daughter
...and I was only 16 years old at the time!
Gmar Chasimah Tovah,Reuven Chaim KleinBeitar Illit, Israel
On Thu, Oct 3, 2019 at 5:54 AM <roys18@aol.com> wrote:in your defense, it was 15 Yom Kippurs ago.Have an easy and meaniful fast.Gmar TovRoy Schmukler
-----Original Message-----
From: RC Klein <yeshivish@gmail.com>
To: roys18 <roys18@aol.com>
Sent: Wed, Oct 2, 2019 2:10 pm
Subject: Re: [ravsig] The Rabbi of Wolbrom's Daughter
Interesting, looks like I missed that point in his email. I will try to contact Mr. Reich for clarification. Thanks for pointing it out to me.
Gmar Chasimah Tovah,Reuven Chaim KleinBeitar Illit, Israel
On Wed, Oct 2, 2019 at 7:17 AM <roys18@aol.com> wrote:That note about a different surname for the Shenos Chaim's father in my research actually comes from an email sent to you in 2004Here is a copy of it.
----- Original Message -----
From: LR
To: rachack@futurecities.com
Sent: Friday, March 26, 2004 4:35 AM
Subject: Shenos Chayim
Subject: Shenos Chayim
From: Leslie Reich
A query to this site reads as follows: -
***********."Hi, my name is Reuven Chaim Klein. I am a descendant of
***********Reuven Chaim Klein who wrote the sefer Shenos Chayim (which is
**********a commentary on the Rebbenu Yerucham). He lived in the city of
***********Munkatch. I have a copy of his sefer. In it, where describing
**********himself, it says he is of the offspring of the TaZ and the ReMa.
**********I was wondering if you can help me get more information."
......................................................................
I would like to help Mr Klein, but let me grouch and grouse (I think the
latter is a Kosher bird) a little first.
Our interlocuter says he want more information but does not let us now that
what he has got. Is he asking for leads for the connection between the
Shenos Chaim and the Taz & Remo? Which edition does he possess (see later)?
Where and when was the sefer published? If he has no further information it
would be better to state so clearly.
I must confess that I ignore many posts to this forum because the the asker
has not made all this sort of stuff clear.
Having got that off my chest; a brief note about Mr Klein's namesake
ancestor. According to Chachmei Hungaria (by YY Cohen- Jeruslem 1997 p356)
R' Reuven Chaim son of Binyomin Eliezer was born in Cracow in 1826 and died
in Davidkof (spelling?) near Muncasz in 1873. His family name had originally
been Ungar or Auerbach but being orphaned at an early age, adopted a new
name. Curiously, Freedberg's bibliographical dictionary has yet another
surname for him. (I suspect a copying error.)
As to the work Shenos Chaim, which Mr K correctly describes as a commentary
on Rabbenu Yerucham, this was originally published in Lemberg (today Lviv)
in 1871. If this is the edition seen, may I suggest he gets hold of a later
edition published in Jerusalem in 1985. This includes a preface by a
knowledgable contemporary Talmid Chacham, R' Moshe Zishe Kunstlicher. There
might be more information there.
Incidentally, the Rabbenu Yerucham referred to is a 14th Centyry Gadol, R'
Yerucham ben Meshulam, a pupil of the Rosh, who went into exile from
Provence to Spain. In contradistinction to many Gedolim who are commonly
named by their seforim - e.g. Chafetz Chaim, Chazon Ish - , when talmudists
say Rabbenu Yerucham, they ususally do not mean the person, but his two part
halachic sefer, Odom Vechavoh & Mayshorim.
There is a most curious story told about this last opus. The Chida (18th
Cent) in his Shem Hagdolim states that there exists a belief or tradition
that anybody who publishes a commentary on Rabbenu Yerucham is destined for
an early grave. It may be noted that the author of the Shenos Chaim died
aged 47 !
I hope the above is of general interest without being unconnected with
genealogy.
Leslie Reich
-------- 3/26/2004 11:14:52 PM
-----Original Message-----
From: RC Klein <yeshivish@gmail.com>
To: roys18 <roys18@aol.com>
Sent: Wed, Sep 25, 2019 3:07 pm
Subject: Re: [ravsig] The Rabbi of Wolbrom's Daughter
I am sending you as an attachment the most up-to-date version of my research. You will see there that the Charna that married Binyamin Eliezer was not the father of the Shenos Chaim, but was a son of his. That son was the one who lived in Svalyava, not the father. AFAIK, the father lived in Krakow.Also, could you give me more information about your comment in fn. 5 about Freedberg having a different surname for the Shenos Chaim's father?Also, the years you wrote don't make sense: If Binyamin Eliezer was born in 1826, then his son RCK could not have been born in 1931. And also I don't see reason to think they both died in 1873, although that was the year RCK died.
Kesiva V'Chasimah Tovah,Reuven Chaim KleinBeitar Illit, Israel
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