Re: Rabbi Gartenhaus

Thanks - wasn't expecting a response until after Shabbos due to your being 7 hours ahead.

In general I have tried to find descendants of rabbanim who knew my GGF where they might have exchanged written communication and as a very outside shot, the yorshin might have preserved those documents.

I tried exploring the route to R. Gartenhaus maybe in 2009 and things came to a dead end.  I seem to recall that by that time, R. Kulefsky's wife was still alive but not doing well.  Always a race against time.  20 years ago I was still able to contact people whose lives intersected in a meaningful way with my GGF and was able to ask exploratory questions.

To be continued......

On Friday, July 22, 2022, 11:20:30 AM EDT, Rabbi RC Klein <rabbircklein@gmail.com> wrote:

I don't have time to write at length now because it's Erev Shabbos. But basically, Rav Gartenhaus' zivvug sheini wife was my great-grandfather's niece. He was also misader kiddushin at my grandparents' wedding and he gifted my grandfather a silver kiddush cup with an inscription on it that I use every Shabbos.

Rabbi Reuven Chaim Klein

 

→

 

Rabbi Elazar Lipa Gartenhaus

Rabbi Elazar Lipa Gartenhaus is Rabbi Reuven Chaim Klein's first cousin twice removed's husband!

Rabbi Reuven Chaim Klein
You

 

→

 

Michael (Mordechai Meyer) Klein
your father

 

→

 

Randolph Klein
his father

 

→

 

Mordechai Klein
his father

 

→

 

Zissel Kallus
his sister

 

→

 

Hinda Spielman
her daughter

 

→

 

Rabbi Elazar Lipa Gartenhaus
her husband

 

Shalom & Kol Tuv,

Reuven Chaim Klein

On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 6:02 PM Michael Escott <msescott@yahoo.com> wrote:

Weird connection.

Though I recently started exchanging emails with you over the last couple of years, I just noticed some old notes in my genealogy realm re: an email thread that I noticed online over 10 years ago that involved you (but not me) and it was a discussion re: Rav Elazar Lipa Gartenhaus - father in law of Rav Kulefsky of Ner Yisroel.

What is your connection to this?

R. Gartenhaus was one of the maspidim at my GGF's levaya in 1931 (R. Yaakov Eskolsky) - he was a prominent member in my GGF's rabbinical organization - Degel HaRabbonim.

Thanks and a guten Shabbos,

Moshe Escott

Re: Rabbi Gartenhaus

I don't have time to write at length now because it's Erev Shabbos. But basically, Rav Gartenhaus' zivvug sheini wife was my great-grandfather's niece. He was also misader kiddushin at my grandparents' wedding and he gifted my grandfather a silver kiddush cup with an inscription on it that I use every Shabbos.

Rabbi Reuven Chaim Klein

 

→

 

Rabbi Elazar Lipa Gartenhaus

Rabbi Elazar Lipa Gartenhaus is Rabbi Reuven Chaim Klein's first cousin twice removed's husband!

Rabbi Reuven Chaim Klein
You

 

→

 

Michael (Mordechai Meyer) Klein
your father

 

→

 

Randolph Klein
his father

 

→

 

Mordechai Klein
his father

 

→

 

Zissel Kallus
his sister

 

→

 

Hinda Spielman
her daughter

 

→

 

Rabbi Elazar Lipa Gartenhaus
her husband

 

Shalom & Kol Tuv,

Reuven Chaim Klein

On Fri, Jul 22, 2022 at 6:02 PM Michael Escott <msescott@yahoo.com> wrote:

Weird connection.

Though I recently started exchanging emails with you over the last couple of years, I just noticed some old notes in my genealogy realm re: an email thread that I noticed online over 10 years ago that involved you (but not me) and it was a discussion re: Rav Elazar Lipa Gartenhaus - father in law of Rav Kulefsky of Ner Yisroel.

What is your connection to this?

R. Gartenhaus was one of the maspidim at my GGF's levaya in 1931 (R. Yaakov Eskolsky) - he was a prominent member in my GGF's rabbinical organization - Degel HaRabbonim.

Thanks and a guten Shabbos,

Moshe Escott

Correcting the Family Tree: STEINER or GALANDAUER

Along time ago (back in 2012), I got an email from Leslie after he spoke to his mother about the genealogy of Devorah Weisz (our common ancestor who was married to Meir Kuttner). Her father's name was Mor/Moshe Weisz, and according to the information Leslie said in his mother's name, Mor/Moshe's

wife was named Regina Galandauer. I also have an email from Shoshi Horowitz in Hebrew where she seems to confirm this connection. But in his last email in that discussion, Les wrote that his mother said there's a mistake in what he said but he never corrected it. 

So I'm not sure if there is where the mistake is, but I got an email yesterday from a genealogical researcher named Lynn Pollak Golumbic, who wrote that actually Mor/Moshe Weisz's wife was really named Regina STEINER, not Galandauer, and it was really Regina's MOTHER, whose maiden name was Kritzler, who descends from the GALANDAUER/KRITZLER/POLLAK/SPITZ family (although technically, not Galandauer). It all makes sense and she sent me some documentation about this (see here), but I was wondering if we can verify this indepently. 

Does it make sense that Gynogi Neni confused Galandauer with Steiner when talking about her grandmother's maiden name? Can somebody ask Szori Neni about this so we can get to the bottom of this?

Shalom & Kol Tuv

Reuven Chaim Klein

Beitar Illit, Israel

Author of: God versus Gods & Lashon HaKodesh

ORCiD | LinkedIN | Google Scholar | Amazon

Re: Regina Galandauer

Enclosed please find the relevant Bonyhad records. 

1) Regine Steiner birth record: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDB-N3PR-Y?i=76&cat=687397

b. Oct 21, 1860, Bonyhad, daughter of Adolf Steiner and Marie Kritzler 

2) Regine Galandauer death record https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDB-N35R-7?i=168&cat=687397

d. April 11, 1873 age 4 d. of Jacob Galandauer and Rosalie Kritzler

3) Birth of Fulop Weisz, son of Regine Steiner and Mor Weisz  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDB-J96?i=239&cat=687397

b. 13 May 1884

4) Marriage of Mor Weisz and Regine Steiner, https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSDB-J96?i=239&cat=687397

Jun 19, 1883

( He was a divorced cantor)

5) Marriage of Mayer Kuttner and Devorah Weisz https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9TCM-8MK?i=13&cc=1452460&cat=647842

Feb 23, 1921

The Pollaks, Kritzlers, and Galandauers married each other quite a bit, which is natural.

I have a family tree of over 7000 descendants, all of whom originate from 6 or the 8 children of Avraham Pollak and Reichel Spitz, which I have been working on for over 30 years.

I have now added you and your cousins (who are also mine)..

Best,

Lynn

On Mon, Jul 18, 2022 at 3:27 PM Rabbi RC Klein <rabbircklein@gmail.com> wrote:

Are you sure? Do you have any outside sources for this? You might be right. My source for understanding that Mor/Moshe Weisz's wife was named Regina Galandauer is this email from Les Barany after he spoke to his mother.  I also have an email from Shoshi Horowitz in Hebrew where she confirmed this connection. But in his last email, Les wrote that his mother said there's a mistake in what he said and he never corrected it.

So it could be that all that information I had until now was that aforementioned mistake. And perhaps then you are correct the Mor/Moshe Weisz's wife was really named Regina STEINER, not Galandauer, and it was really Regina's MOTHER who descends from the GALANDAUER/KRITZLER/POLLAK/SPITZ family (although technically, not Galandauer). 

Shalom & Kol Tuv,

Reuven Chaim Klein

On Mon, Jul 18, 2022 at 12:10 AM Lynn Pollak Golumbic <lynnpollak@gmail.com> wrote:

By chance I actually read Chana's book(!) - which I got from Shilo Gal's widow, Zippora, who had a copy from Shoshi. I had collaborated with him many years ago on the Kritzler/Galandauers.  I don't recall reading that this Regina Galandauer was married.

Please do send the word file so I can see what it says.

Since I wrote to you I did more research and realized that I actually had Deborah Weisz and her husband on my tree.

Your actual ancestor was Regine Steiner, who was also a Kritzler descendant.

I am enclosing three files so that you can see it better- your ancestors, the ancestors and descendants of Regine Steiner, and how you and I are related ( 4th cousin 2x removed).

Best,

Lynn Pollak Golumbic

Re: Regina Galandauer

Are you sure? Do you have any outside sources for this? You might be right. My source for understanding that Mor/Moshe Weisz's wife was named Regina Galandauer is this email from Les Barany after he spoke to his mother.  I also have an email from Shoshi Horowitz in Hebrew where she confirmed this connection. But in his last email, Les wrote that his mother said there's a mistake in what he said and he never corrected it.

So it could be that all that information I had until now was that aforementioned mistake. And perhaps then you are correct the Mor/Moshe Weisz's wife was really named Regina STEINER, not Galandauer, and it was really Regina's MOTHER who descends from the GALANDAUER/KRITZLER/POLLAK/SPITZ family (although technically, not Galandauer). 

Shalom & Kol Tuv,

Reuven Chaim Klein

On Mon, Jul 18, 2022 at 12:10 AM Lynn Pollak Golumbic <lynnpollak@gmail.com> wrote:

By chance I actually read Chana's book(!) - which I got from Shilo Gal's widow, Zippora, who had a copy from Shoshi. I had collaborated with him many years ago on the Kritzler/Galandauers.  I don't recall reading that this Regina Galandauer was married.

Please do send the word file so I can see what it says.

Since I wrote to you I did more research and realized that I actually had Deborah Weisz and her husband on my tree.

Your actual ancestor was Regine Steiner, who was also a Kritzler descendant.

I am enclosing three files so that you can see it better- your ancestors, the ancestors and descendants of Regine Steiner, and how you and I are related ( 4th cousin 2x removed).

Best,

Lynn Pollak Golumbic