Re: Rav elimelech

Looking back at some old emails, it seems like somebody told me that it was written on Devorah Eckstein's tombstone, but never sent me the actual picture, so I can't know for sure. If anybody has a picture, please share. What I do have is a picture from S. Leibowitz from Florida who sent me a picture of Mordechai Mermelstein's tombstone (attached) that says he is a descendant of the Noam Elimelech (and, incidentally, the Vilna Gaon), and according to the tradition I received from Mr. Steg, this yichus comes through Mordechai Mermelstein's mother Chaya Zlata Freidman/Klein/Mermelstein (daughter of Eliezer Friedman), whose mother was Devorah Eckstein, who was apparently a descendant of the Noam Elimelech. That's all I know so far. I don't even know the names of Devorah Eckstein's parents to try and figure out how she connections to the Noam Elimelech (not for a lack of trying).

A Gutte Kvittel,

Reuven Chaim Klein

Beitar Illit, Israel

Author of: God versus Gods & Lashon HaKodesh

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On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 7:18 PM Shmaya Kohn <shmayah.kohn@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi

Thank you for your email below. 

Please can you just clarify who's tombstone says they're a descendant of Rav elimelech?

Kind Regards

Shmayah Kohn 

On Sun, Sep 26, 2021, 4:40 PM RC Klein <yeshivish@gmail.com> wrote:

From the information I have on Geni.com it seems that your father-in-law David Friedman and your wife's uncle Heshy Friedman were sons of Menachem Mordechai Friedman, his father was Hersh Tzvi Friedman, and his father was Eliezer Friedman. That's the information that I have. 

We are related because my great-grandmother Chaya Zlata Mermelstein nee Klein nee Friedman was a sister of Hersh Tzvi Friedman, and both of them were children of Eliezer Friedman. 

But this could be wrong, because Heshy recently asked me about an ancestor of his named Aharon Shmuel Friedman, but I don't have that name in my Geni records. Perhaps he was higher up on the Friedman side of the family.

I have heard from our cousin Mordche (Max) Steg in Boro Park that Eliezer Friedman's wife Devorah Eckstein was a descendant of the Noam Elimelech, and for years I've been trying to find out exactly how, but have not made any progress on that front. So that's all I know about a connection to the Noam Elimelech. IIRC, somebody sent me a picture of her tombstone (or perhaps it was somebody else lower down the line) which mentions her being a descendant of the Noam Elimelech. I'm not sure that she was davka a granddaughter of the Noam Elimelech, it could be she was a great-granddaughter or even further down the line.

Here's the Geni profile for Devorah Eckstein: https://www.geni.com/people/Devorah-Eckstein/6000000013123061407?through=6000000013060636206

I really do want to get down to the bottom of this at some point. I just don't have enough information. Maybe somebody else out there knows more?

A Gutte Kvittel,

Reuven Chaim Klein

Beitar Illit, Israel

Author of: God versus Gods & Lashon HaKodesh

ORCiD | LinkedIN | Google Scholar | Amazon

On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 3:08 PM Shmaya Kohn <shmayah.kohn@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Rav Klein

Hope you're well 

This is Shmayah Kohn 

I'm chaya friedmans husband 

Chayas uncle Heshy friedman mentioned to me that we are related to Rav elimelech. 

I'm going to Rav elimelechs kaver next week and Heshy mentioned you might have a family tree to know exactly how we are related? 

Please can you advise. 

Heshy said that his fathers grandmother was a granddaughter of Rav elimelech is this true? 

What was her name? 

Kind Regards 

Shmayah Kohn 

Re: Rav elimelech

From the information I have on Geni.com it seems that your father-in-law David Friedman and your wife's uncle Heshy Friedman were sons of Menachem Mordechai Friedman, his father was Hersh Tzvi Friedman, and his father was Eliezer Friedman. That's the information that I have. 

We are related because my great-grandmother Chaya Zlata Mermelstein nee Klein nee Friedman was a sister of Hersh Tzvi Friedman, and both of them were children of Eliezer Friedman. 

But this could be wrong, because Heshy recently asked me about an ancestor of his named Aharon Shmuel Friedman, but I don't have that name in my Geni records. Perhaps he was higher up on the Friedman side of the family.

I have heard from our cousin Mordche (Max) Steg in Boro Park that Eliezer Friedman's wife Devorah Eckstein was a descendant of the Noam Elimelech, and for years I've been trying to find out exactly how, but have not made any progress on that front. So that's all I know about a connection to the Noam Elimelech. IIRC, somebody sent me a picture of her tombstone (or perhaps it was somebody else lower down the line) which mentions her being a descendant of the Noam Elimelech. I'm not sure that she was davka a granddaughter of the Noam Elimelech, it could be she was a great-granddaughter or even further down the line.

Here's the Geni profile for Devorah Eckstein: https://www.geni.com/people/Devorah-Eckstein/6000000013123061407?through=6000000013060636206

I really do want to get down to the bottom of this at some point. I just don't have enough information. Maybe somebody else out there knows more?

A Gutte Kvittel,

Reuven Chaim Klein

Beitar Illit, Israel

Author of: God versus Gods & Lashon HaKodesh

ORCiD | LinkedIN | Google Scholar | Amazon

On Sun, Sep 26, 2021 at 3:08 PM Shmaya Kohn <shmayah.kohn@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Rav Klein

Hope you're well 

This is Shmayah Kohn 

I'm chaya friedmans husband 

Chayas uncle Heshy friedman mentioned to me that we are related to Rav elimelech. 

I'm going to Rav elimelechs kaver next week and Heshy mentioned you might have a family tree to know exactly how we are related? 

Please can you advise. 

Heshy said that his fathers grandmother was a granddaughter of Rav elimelech is this true? 

What was her name? 

Kind Regards 

Shmayah Kohn 

Re:

If you look carefully, you will see that on my webpage I discuss that and it's a mistake made by another researcher who misunderstood something else I wrote. You have to realize there are two people named Binyomin Eliezer in this discussion, one is the FATHER of the Shenos Chaim (and his surname was Ungar-Auerbach) and the other Binyomin Eliezer is the eldest SON of the Shenos Chaim (from whom my family descends). The name Charna refers to the name of the wife of Binyomin Eliezer SON of the Shenos Chaim. On the other hand, the unnamed woman whose father was Rav Yaakov Segal was married to Binyomin Eliezer FATHER of the Shenos Chaim. I don't know her name, it could well be Charna, but I don't have a source for that and any sources I've seen that say her name was Charna quote it in my name because they misunderstood what I wrote on my webpage. 

Also, Rav Yaakov Segal's father was NOT named Avraham; his name was Tzvi. It could be that Rav Tzvi Segal's father was named Rav Avraham Segal. I don't have a clear understanding of all the generations of Rav Tzvi Segal's yichus as a ben acher ben up to the TaZ, but I do think I've seen sources that give his father or grandfather's name as Avraham, צ"ע.

How are you a descendant of the Shenos Chaim? Where do you live?

Zei Gezunt & Kol Tuv,

Reuven Chaim Klein

On Sun, Feb 21, 2021 at 2:32 AM Zevi Klein <zeviklein1@icloud.com> wrote:

Wow Thnks so much, if I have any more information I will let you know. But I was looking on the Kleinfamily website it looked like u we're missing charna who married Binyomin Eliezer grandfather her father Yakov segal 1780-1818 his father name is Avraham HaLevi segal

The Shenos Chaim's wife

Rav Aharon Shapiro from Bene Barak wrote in his kuntres L'Mateh Reuven that the Shenos Chaim's first wife was the mother of his son Binyamin Eliezer and daughters Chana (Shapiro) and Rachel (Toub) and Leah, while his second wife (Miriam Greenberger, daughter of Hersch Ber Greenberger) was the mother of the Shenos Chaim's sons Hersch Ber, Yerucham and daughter Rivkah. Rabbi Shapiro told me that he heard this information from Reb Yerucham Klein a"h from Paris
When I spoke to Reb Yerucham's brother, Reb Benzion Klein shlit"a (who lives in Ramat HaSharon), he told me that the Shenos Chaim didn't have any children from his zivvug rishon and they were married for 10 years without kids and then he gave her a גט and got married to Miriam Greenberger, who was the mother of all his children.
According to the first version, what's the story about how the Shenos Chaim ended up with a zivug sheni? Did his first wife die? Did he divorce her?
Either way, we still don't know anything about the Shenos Chaim's zivug rishon.

Kol Tuv,

Reuven Chaim Klein

Beitar Illit, Israel

Author of: God versus Gods: Judaism in the Age of Idolatry & Lashon HaKodesh: History, Holiness, & Hebrew 

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