Hi Reuven,I'm doing research on the Mermesteins of Klyachanovo and wanted to touch base with you as I'm about to engage in some research of the European records. I was not able to download the tree from any of the links but if you review the following to see if they are related or send it in GEDCOM format, that would be great.I you know about available records for the town, any insight would be appreciated. I'm happy to share any information.Regards,
Gary Palgon, Atlanta, AHere's the family I am tracing.1-Yehuda Dov Mermelstein
. . . . 2-Chayem Tzvi "Hersh" Mermelstein
b: 1858, Czechoslovakia
d: 28 May 1926, Brooklyn, Kings, New York, United States
. . . . +Jitte "Yetta" Weinberger
b: 1858, Czechoslovakia
m:
d: 15 December 1946, Brooklyn, Kings, New York, United States
. . . . . . . . 3-Giselle "Golda / Gussie" Mermelstein
b: 1883, Hungary / Czechoslovakia
d: USA
. . . . . . . . 3-Harry Mermelstein
d: USA
. . . . . . . . 3-Mermelstein
b: Hungary
d: USA
. . . . . . . . 3-Ethel Mermelstein
b: Hungary
d: Hungary
. . . . . . . . 3-Mermelstein
b: Hungary
d: Hungary
. . . . . . . . 3-Mermelstein
b: Hungary
d: Hungary
. . . . . . . . 3-Male Mermelstein
d: USA
. . . . . . . . 3-Israel "Ignac" Mermelstein
b: 1881, Klocsaw, Hungary
d: USA
. . . . . . . . 3-Dora Mermelstein
b: 1888, Hungary
d: 8 July 1958, Brooklyn, Kings, New York
. . . . . . . . 3-Rose "Rosey" Mermelstein
b: 1895, Hungary
d: USA
. . . . . . . . 3-Meyer "Max" Mermelstein
b: 1897 or 1898, Hungary
d: USA
. . . . . . . . 3-Ruzena "Sarah" Mermelstein
b: 1902 or 1903, Hungary
d: USA
Saturday, August 10, 2013
Re: Mermelstein from Klyachanovo
I am forwarding your email to someone else who knows that side of the family better than I do. The truth is that I am not really related to the Mermesteins of Klyachanovo, rather my great-grandmother Chaya Zlata KLEIN nee FRIEDMAN married one Shlomo MERMERLSTEIN from there (and had other kids with him). I do not see the name Shlomo on your list. Other researchers have contacted me about research on MERMELSTEIN families in the Munkacs area, but most of them were Leviim, yet my MERMELSTEIN family are not Leviim.
(Sorry for the broken links, I haven't really touched that website in a very long time. Most of my genealogical activities is on geni.com nowadays, I'm not even sure if I have the old GEDCOM files)
Good Luck,
RCK
On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 6:22 PM, Family Tree Expert <Expert@familytreeexpert.com> wrote:
Thursday, January 10, 2013
Fwd: שאלה בענין יוחסין
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: הפצה <hafaza00@gmail.com>
Date: 2013/1/6
Subject: Re: שאלה בענין יוחסין
To: RCK <yeshivish@gmail.com>
באיזה בן של הט"ז?
From: הפצה <hafaza00@gmail.com>
Date: 2013/1/6
Subject: Re: שאלה בענין יוחסין
To: RCK <yeshivish@gmail.com>
איני יודע, רק כך שמע אבי זצ"ל מזקינו. - לא אופתע אם רק בן בנו של הט"ז היה הראשון. אבל בפירוש שמעתי 'בן הט"ז'.
2013/1/5 הפצה <hafaza00@gmail.com>
בעקרון הקונטרס הנ"ס כתב בני על פי מ"ש זקני ר' מנחם וייס בשער והקדמת ה'עמודי אש לבית יוסף', תמצאם באוצר החכמה. את הידיעה שאביו היה ר' אברהם כמדומני הוציא מנוסח מצבה, אברר אצלו בהמשך. בכל אופן כיום לא ידוע סדר הדורות, אבל מקובל אצלנו שבנו של הט"ז כבר היה אב"ד דומברבה, וממנו עברה המשרה דור אחר דור.לכבוד הרב שליט"א
הנני עוסק כעת במחקרי היוחסין של המשפחה שלי. אני נמנה מבני בניו של הרה"ג ראובן חיים קליין זצ"ל אבד"ק דווידקאפף ובעל מחה"ס שנות חיים על רבינו ירוחם. אביו שלו היה הרב בנימין אליעזר אונגער-אויערבאך חתנו של רבי יעקב הלוי סג"ל אבד"ק וואלברום ולאחר מכן ראב"ד בקראקא. הוא ואחיו הרב יוסף חריף (מח"ס עמודי אש לבית יוסף) היו מבני הרב צבי הירש הלוי אב"ד דאמבראווא שהיה בן אחר בן לבעל הט"ז. שם משפחת הרב צבי הירש הנ"ל נקרא ג"כ לייציס וגם לעבענהיים וגם שטערן וגם ליכטיג (ואיני ידוע היאך ליישב כל זה). והנה ראיתי באמצעות אוצר החכמה בקונטרס גזע קודש (שחיבר בנך ונמצא בסוף הספר ברכת אברהם על המועדים) עמוד ז' שמביא שאביו של הרב צבי הירש שטערן היה הרב אברהם סג"ל אב"ד דאמבראווא שהיה בן אחר בן לבעל הט"ז.
האמנם חוקר אחר שלח לי אילן יוחסין שהוא ערך ובו כתוב ששם אביו של הרב צבי הירש היה הרב דוד הלוי סג"ל שטערן. והנה מצאתי שהרב דוד שטערן היה בנו של הרב שמואל הלוי סג"ל שטיינברג בנו של בעל הט"ז וחתנו של הרב שמשון מאוסטרפולי (ע' בקובץ ישורון גליון י"ח עמ' תתמ"ד). ולכאורה אותו חקור טעה בזה ודילג כמה דורות בין הרב צבי הירש הלוי עד הרב דוד שטערן ויתכן שבין הדורות נמצא הרב אברהם סג"ל.
על כן אני שואל ממך האם ידוע לך או למישהו אחר בדיוק סדר הדורות מזקנינו הרב צבי הירש עד בעל הט"ז ושמות האנשים שביניהם?
ואיידי דמיירי ביה אעלה על במתי השאלה ג"כ האם ידוע לך סדר הדורות מהרב צבי הירש עד בעל מחבר הספר בית שמואל (בונטרס הנ"ל עמ' ח' נקט שהוא היה נכד להבית שמואל אבל לא פירט איך)? וגם שם מפרש שהרב צבי הירש היה נכד של בעל המשאת בנימין אבל לא פירט סדר הדורות האם זה ידוע? וגם בהקדמה לספר שנות חיים כתוב שהוא היה מצאצאי הרמ"א האם זהו ע"י זקנו הרב צבי הירש והאם ידוע קו היוחסין?
ראובן חיים קליין
ביתר עילית
Wednesday, January 09, 2013
Re: genealogy questions
'Shkoiyach for your response. I attached the selection in Rabbi Gartenhaus' sefer about this story.
Where did you get your information about the exact names between the Shenos Chaim and the TaZ? I have the same account in my notes (which I think I got from R Eliezer Klein from Lakewood, a grandson of Reuven Chaim Klein about whom there was a Mishpacha article a few years back). But I found on Otzar HaChochma a slightly different account, see the other attachment. I was thinking maybe that they aren't arguing but that there is a name missing from our listing and that really reb tzvi hirsch stern's father reb avrohom halevi stern who was a son of rav dovid stern who was a son of reb shmuel halevi (who, by the way, was a son-in-law of reb shimshon of ostropoli and died al kiddush hashem ע' קובץ ישורון גליון י"ח עמ' תתמ"ד). I am trying to ask a few people about this to answer up the stira (I am in touch with the author of that sefer's father who is a rov in bene baraq and there is someone in my chabura who might be able to get me some more information about this line...)
Also, it is interesting to note that what Klilas Yofi (on pg. 60 in my print) says about Reb Yakov Stern that he was rov in wolbrom and then in krakow is also mentioned by the Chasam Sofer himself in Teshuvos Chasam Sofer Chadashos, Yoreh Deah Siman 17.
Who was this Charna that was married to Reb Binyamin Eliezer Klein? Who were her parents? Do you have any pictures from Reb Binyamin Eliezer Klein (and his wife)'s tombstone in Szolyva? I found a guy who is willing to go to Szolyva to take pictures of the kevorim there, but he would charge $100 to do so.
I am note sure what you meant when you wrote "I don't know which Reuven Chaim you are, but the older one who is married to Chava, his mother Freida Rivka comes from the brother of the Rema, Eliezer."
Via Google, I learned that last year you left BMG to become a rov in Denver. It seems to me that we probably overlapped at our time in BMG. I used to learn in the Chabura of Reb Aryeh Leib Paretzky and then later in the Chabura of Reb Sruli Newman (Kalman Krohn's eidim).
By the way, if you want you can join www.geni.com where our extended family tree is growing.
Here is my profile on Geni.com:
Here is the Shenos Chaim:
Kol Tuv,
Reuven Chaim Klein
Beitar Illit, Israel
On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 12:35 AM, Rabbi Steinberg <blessedeer@juno.com> wrote:
Dear R' Reuven Chaim,I have not yet seen what Rav Gartenhaus wrote about Mendel Kalish. I do have a picture of his matzevah (attached). Did you know that he was niftar when he was 15! I never heard of ksavim from him, but I will look around.Binyamin Eliezer's wife was Charna. (They lived in Svalyava). I do not know the order of the children of Binyamin Eliezer.Yichus of Shnos Chaim:Rav Reuven Chaimson of Rav Binyamim Eliezer Unger Orbachson-in law of Rav Yaakov Litzas (Av Bais Din Wohlbrum, Polin, Rav Krakow)son of Rav Tzvi Hirsch segal Stern (called Reb Hershele Litzas Av Bais Din Dambrava near Trani, which is where he is buried, see sefer Klilas Yofi page 131.)son of Rav Dovid segal Sternson of Rav Shmuel (Av bais Din and Rosh Hayeshiva in Ferden.son of TazWe do not know how the Shnos Chaim came from the Rema, although we know he did.I don't know which Reuven Chaim you are, but the older one who is married to Chava, his mother Freida Rivka comes from the brother of the Rema, Eliezer.On Mon, 7 Jan 2013 21:06:21 +0200 RCK <yeshivish@gmail.com> writes:You never responded to this email.RCK
On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 8:41 PM, RCK <yeshivish@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks.
On Sun, Jan 29, 2012 at 8:26 PM, Steven Yurowitz <syurowitz@newmangreenberg.com> wrote:
Reuvain I am forwarding your email to Tzvi Steinberg he can answer all your questions.
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4GLTE Webchaver protected smartphone
----- Reply message -----
From: "RCK" <yeshivish@gmail.com>
To: "eyuro@msn.com" <eyuro@msn.com>, "Steven Yurowitz" <syurowitz@newmangreenberg.com>
Subject: genealogy questions
Date: Wed, Jan 25, 2012 11:16 am
I was recently reading through Eshel Avorhom (from Rav Elazar Lipa Gartenhaus), he mentions the fascinating story of the child prodigy Menachem Mendel Kallisch. I was wondering if you have any more information about the story. It seems very interesting. Does anyone still have any of his writings? It is mentioned in the sefer that he drew foretelling the Nazi's conquering of Europe.Also, I recently had my firstborn son. I named him after our common ancestor, Binyamin Eliezer Klein. Do we have any information about him? Who was his wife? And what was the birth order of his three children (my g-grandfather, Mordechai Klein, your gg-grandmother, Zissel Kallisch, and Pesel Mayer)?Also, I probably asked you this before, but do you know exactly how the Shenos Chaim was a descendant of the TaZ and/or the Remah?Kol Tuv,Reuven Chaim Klein
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Thursday, January 03, 2013
Re: Klien family tree
You have closer relatives. Reb Hersch Ber had a son named Moshe Ezriel Klein and his son is reuven chaim klein about whom there was an article in mishpacha magazine, see http://www.mishpacha.com/Browse/Article/197/Articles-of-Faith i spoke to a grandson of this reuven chaim klein named eliezer klein (from lakewood) and he sent me a family tree that he made (attached to this email). There is guy named Osher Klein who is a rebbi in Yeshivas Birkas Yitzchok in Los Angeles who I beleive is also from Moshe Ezriel Klein's family. As you probably know, Reb Hersch Ber had a son named Reuven Chaim Klein who the Rov of Sznina and was the son-in-law of Reb Yishaya'le of Kerister, he wrote Mateh Reuven and was killed in the Holocaust without children.
I am a descendant of an older brother of Reb Hersch Ber whose name was R' Binyamin Eliezer Klein (he was named after the Shenos Chaim's father).
Here is the link on Geni.com to your great-grandfather's profile: http://www.geni.com/people/Sholom-Yosef-Klein/6000000018908655093?through=6000000009307290291 I just created it right now. I would like to urge you to help fill in your family and get more people involved.
What else are you looking for?
Kol Tuv,
RCK
On Thu, Jan 3, 2013 at 8:21 PM, R N <ruchinied@googlemail.com> wrote:
Thanks for the link on Geni, is there more on the Klien side? my father's grandfather was Shulem yosef Klien a son of Hersh Ber (Tzvi Dov) Klien who was the son of Reuven Chaim Klien..On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 12:51 AM, RCK <yeshivish@gmail.com> wrote:
I haven't really worked on the family tree since around 2007, but if you go to http://kleinfamilygenealogy.blogspot.co.il/ you might be able to get an old copy of the family tree. If you tell me exactly how you are a descendant of the Shenos Chaim (and what your name is), I can add you to http://www.geni.com where you can find more information about the family and find other people who are also descendants of the Shenos Chaim.Here is my profile on Geni.com:
Here is the Shenos Chaim:If you have any more specific questions, I'd be glad to help you.out...Kol Tuv,RCKOn Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 4:57 AM, R N <ruchinied@googlemail.com> wrote:
Hi, Please can you send me a copy of the klien family tree, as i am a descendent of the R' Reuven Chaim Klien -munkatchMany ThanksRN
Tuesday, January 01, 2013
Re: Klien family tree
I haven't really worked on the family tree since around 2007, but if you go to http://kleinfamilygenealogy.blogspot.co.il/ you might be able to get an old copy of the family tree. If you tell me exactly how you are a descendant of the Shenos Chaim (and what your name is), I can add you to http://www.geni.com where you can find more information about the family and find other people who are also descendants of the Shenos Chaim.
Here is my profile on Geni.com:
Here is the Shenos Chaim:
If you have any more specific questions, I'd be glad to help you.out...
Kol Tuv,
RCK
On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 4:57 AM, R N <ruchinied@googlemail.com> wrote:
Hi, Please can you send me a copy of the klien family tree, as i am a descendent of the R' Reuven Chaim Klien -munkatchMany ThanksRN
Tuesday, October 30, 2012
Re: The JewishGen Family Finder:
So far it doesn't match anything in my records...
On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 3:04 PM, Zack Oryan Oracz <zackoryan@gmail.com> wrote:
Thanks for your response.Unfortunately the details are very few:Avi Klein's father was named Yitzchak Zoltan Klein (Yitzchak's two brothers were named Eliahu and Avraham) and his grandfather was named Shimon Klein, who was married to Sima.The information is indeed sparce.Thanks,Zack--2012/10/29 RCK <yeshivish@gmail.com>There were many KLEIN families in Munkatch you would have to give me some more details in order for me to know if "Avi Klein"'s family is related to mine. (I happen to have a brother named Avi Klein, but he was not named after anyone from the Klein side of the family). Our KLEIN family are descendants of Rabbi Reuven Chaim Klein the author of Shenos Chaim. Can you offer any more information about your KLEIN family?RCKOn Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Zack Oryan Oracz <JGJGFF@lyris.jewishgen.org> wrote:
- From : Zack Oryan Oracz, (researcher code 421722) zackoryan@gmail.com
- To : Reuven Chaim Klein, (researcher code 106665)
- Subject : The JewishGen Family Finder:
=======================================================
שלום לך
תודה על עזרתך:
Hello,
My name is Zack Oryan Oracz. I'm a journalist and genealogist from Israel and I'm conducting a genealogical research for Mr.Avi Klein and the Klein family from theMunkács town
I believe that the family trees of these families and of those that you are researching have a common past and I'd be glad to receive/submit information to advance this research.
Thank you very much and good luck.
ZACK
=======================================================
Email posted from the JewishGen Family Finder
Sign up now for the JGFFAlert and other Value-Added services!
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צח אוריין-אוראץ'052-5558578
Sunday, October 28, 2012
Re: The JewishGen Family Finder:
There were many KLEIN families in Munkatch you would have to give me some more details in order for me to know if "Avi Klein"'s family is related to mine. (I happen to have a brother named Avi Klein, but he was not named after anyone from the Klein side of the family). Our KLEIN family are descendants of Rabbi Reuven Chaim Klein the author of Shenos Chaim. Can you offer any more information about your KLEIN family?
RCK
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 10:09 PM, Zack Oryan Oracz <JGJGFF@lyris.jewishgen.org> wrote:
- From : Zack Oryan Oracz, (researcher code 421722) zackoryan@gmail.com
- To : Reuven Chaim Klein, (researcher code 106665)
- Subject : The JewishGen Family Finder:
=======================================================
שלום לך
תודה על עזרתך:
Hello,
My name is Zack Oryan Oracz. I'm a journalist and genealogist from Israel and I'm conducting a genealogical research for Mr.Avi Klein and the Klein family from theMunkács town
I believe that the family trees of these families and of those that you are researching have a common past and I'd be glad to receive/submit information to advance this research.
Thank you very much and good luck.
ZACK
=======================================================
Email posted from the JewishGen Family Finder
Sign up now for the JGFFAlert and other Value-Added services!
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen/ValueAdded.asp
Help JewishGen Help You!
http://www.jewishgen.org/jewishgen-erosity/contribute.html
Sunday, October 14, 2012
Fwd: The JewishGen Family Finder:
I am forwarding your email to my mother and her cousin, they will know more than I about this...
RC Klein
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Dennis Kord <JGJGFF@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Date: Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 7:05 PM
Subject: The JewishGen Family Finder:
To: rachack@futurecities.com
- From : Dennis Kord, (researcher code 232226) GOBEK@AOL.COM
- To : Reuven Chaim Klein, (researcher code 106665)
- Subject : The JewishGen Family Finder:
=======================================================
I was wondering if you have any information on the Messinger family from Sered, near Galanta. My mother Iren Messinger was from Sered as was her mother Amalia (Feldmann) and father (Ignac). The latter's father was Alois Messinger. My mother's brothers were Tibor and Sandor. Thanks! Dennis Kord
=======================================================
Email posted from the JewishGen Family Finder
Sign up now for the JGFFAlert and other Value-Added services!
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen/ValueAdded.asp
Help JewishGen Help You!
http://www.jewishgen.org/jewishgen-erosity/contribute.html
From: Dennis Kord <JGJGFF@lyris.jewishgen.org>
Date: Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 7:05 PM
Subject: The JewishGen Family Finder:
To: rachack@futurecities.com
- From : Dennis Kord, (researcher code 232226) GOBEK@AOL.COM
- To : Reuven Chaim Klein, (researcher code 106665)
- Subject : The JewishGen Family Finder:
=======================================================
I was wondering if you have any information on the Messinger family from Sered, near Galanta. My mother Iren Messinger was from Sered as was her mother Amalia (Feldmann) and father (Ignac). The latter's father was Alois Messinger. My mother's brothers were Tibor and Sandor. Thanks! Dennis Kord
=======================================================
Email posted from the JewishGen Family Finder
Sign up now for the JGFFAlert and other Value-Added services!
http://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen/ValueAdded.asp
Help JewishGen Help You!
http://www.jewishgen.org/jewishgen-erosity/contribute.html
Wednesday, August 15, 2012
Re: Klein family
There are alot of Kleins from Hungary. It doesn't seem that our families are at all connected.
RCK
On Thu, Aug 16, 2012 at 5:46 AM, Ron Kenan <ron@kenanent.com> wrote:
Hi Reuven,
I come from a paternal line of Kleins from Hungary. My earliest known ancestor is Samuel Klein 1826-1881 born in Eger and probably his father Mojzes Klein born c. 1787 in Abrany.
Might they fit into your family genealogy? Please feel free to request membership into my family tree http://www.myheritage.com/site-110858741/kenan.
All the best,
Ron Kenan
Thursday, August 09, 2012
Fwd: QUESTIONS: historical information about Kuttner family
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Leslie Barany <lesbarany@aol.com>
Date: Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: QUESTIONS: historical information about Kuttner family
To: "Edith.gruen" <edith.gruen@gmail.com>
Cc: Klein Reuven Chaim <yeshivish@gmail.com>, BLAU LESLIE <lacisari11@verizon.net>
From: Leslie Barany <lesbarany@aol.com>
Date: Tue, Aug 7, 2012 at 11:23 PM
Subject: Re: QUESTIONS: historical information about Kuttner family
To: "Edith.gruen" <edith.gruen@gmail.com>
Cc: Klein Reuven Chaim <yeshivish@gmail.com>, BLAU LESLIE <lacisari11@verizon.net>
My mother just called.
She read over my purple corrections. Apparently, I still have errors in there.
I told her we can go over it and make more corrections next time I'm in Brooklyn.
Les
In the meanwhile, Edith, perhaps you can get the input from your Mom and Dad.
On Aug 7, 2012, at 4:05 PM, Edith.gruen wrote:
Wow! Thank G-d for Gyongyi and her memory and Les and Reuven tooMy mother Szori gave me some of this info two days ago- I will check my notes- but not in this detail-
and I haven't had the opportunity to respond to you- but I will share this info w my Mom and DadEdith
Sent from my iPhoneReuven,I had my mother read over what I wrote to you yesterday. Good thing I did because I got somethings wrong.I'll insert in PURPLE below. I will also still have to review with her your follow-up questions from yesterday.I am curious, how do you organize all this information and how will it be accessible to us?LesBegin forwarded message:From: Leslie Barany <lesbarany@aol.com>
Date: August 6, 2012 3:37:08 AM EDTTo: Klein Reuven Chaim <yeshivish@gmail.com>
Cc: BLAU LESLIE <lacisari11@verizon.net>
Subject: Re: QUESTIONS: historical information about Kuttner family
Dear Reuven,Got some information for you.It's raw data from my mother.LesQUESTIONS FROM REUVENOn Aug 5, 2012, at 3:16 AM, RCK wrote:As many of you know, one of my hobbies is genealogical research. Recently I have been trying to look into the KUTTNER side of my family, I found some interesting things and perhaps you can be of help if you have some information to contribute to my research.1. First of all, in the JewishGen Yizkor Book Necrology Hungarian Database I found mention of the marriage of Miksa and Aranka WEISZ. Is this our grandfather?NO. Miksa was not Weiss, not unless he took his wife's family name,which we know he didn't.2. I know that Mayer is Miksa, but does it make sense to say that Deborah WEISZ is Aranka WEISZ?NO, that does not follow in the tradition of Talmudic logic.
3. From Sori neni's story I know that Devorah Kuttner was originally from Ujvidek, do we have any other information about the WEISZ family from that side?YES. My mother was very helpful.Weiss Mor (Moishe) was the father of Deborah KuttnerGalandauer Regina (Rivka) was his wife.Sori neni was a little mistaken. They were from Verbasz.Actually, Moishe was a hazan, originally from a town near BonyhadThis next answer is one is where I had it most confused.Regina Galandauer. They had four children, Mariska, Mitzi, Deborah and Misi.Misi married Kate and left Verbasz for Israel. Mariska married and moved to Pittsburgh in the USA. Not sure about Mitzi, you will have to follow up on that.It was only after Regina's husband, Moishe, passed away that she (I assume with her daughters) moved to Ujvidek.Verbasz was somewhere on the border with Yugoslavia.The border kept shifting and sometimes it was one country or the other. She said this is wrong. As she explained it, Hungary lost it in WWI and it became Yugoslavia. Then after Hitler it became Hungary again. I suggest both of us hitting the history books on this to understand it better.4. Are there any relatives from that side of the family that might have more information?Kate & Misi bacsi in Israel are gone. They had a daughter, Sonja, and a son, Freddy. Agi knows them, if you want to pursue that line of inquiry. Yossi has also met them when he was a child. I think they lived in Beit Zait just outside Jerusalem. They have kids and grand kids of their own.5. Also does anyone know what were the (Hebrew and Secular) names of the parents and grandparents ofMayer and Devorah Kuttner?I gave you Devorah Kuttner's parents' name above.Miksa (Mayer) Kuttner's parents were Joseph and Lotte.Mayer also had a brother, Sandor. His wife's name was Ilus.Sandor and Ilus had two daughters, but parents and children all perished.Mayer and Sandor had a sister named Vali. Vali married Bilitzer Mor,They had a son, Shaya, who didn't 'come back', and a daugher, Vali.Vali married Yossi Bilitzer and they live in Afula, Israel.who was a cantor and a shochet. They lived in Eger. They had two sons,Shaya and Jossi. Shaya perished in the Holocaust, Jossi lives in Afula, Israel.My feeling is Jossi Bilitzer in Afula might be a good person to visit and may havemore information for you. Agi knows them from a long time ago and could makethe introduction. Also to Sonia and Freddy in Bet Zait. They've all met Yossi and your father, too.On second thought, who am I kidding. She has no time for such things. Maybe Yossi?Probably not. He is as practical in his priorities as is my sister.No information is available on Miksa Mayer's grandparents.That's expecting too much, but I am sure you will find it.Sorry, NO. The Yizkor Book of Papa is mistaken. They were not father and son but first cousins. They both went to teacher's school in Papa.6. Also, I found in the Yizkor Book for the town of Papa that it mentions a list of teachers that had something to do with the town of Papa, and in the list it says "MIKSA KUTTNER Senior was the principal and the teacher of Tab, Somogy County MIKSA KUTTNER Junior worked at the orthodox school of Bonyhád" (see here for the exact page). This seems to imply that Miksa Kuttner's father was also named Miksa Kuttner and was a teacher in the town of Tab. Is this indeed my great-great-grandfather?7. Do we have any more information about him?I gave it to you above. Your great-great-grandparents on the Kuttner side wereJoseph and Lotte Kuttner.
8. Also, I haven't been able to figure out why this is mentioned in the Yizkor book for the town of Papa, what does this have to do with that town?If you read the Papa Yizkor Book carefully, you will note that the city was famed for its school for teachers. They came from all over and upon graduation went to teaching positions all over.
9. Also, I found on the website for the US Holocaust Memorial Museum (click here) a picture of Jozsef Kuttner z"l donated to the Museum by Mr. and Mrs. Blau. In the description of the picture, it is mentioned that our common ancestor, Miksa (Mayer) Kuttner was born in Mosonszenpeter, Hungary. To the best of my recollection, this fact is not mentioned in Mr. Blau's, so I would like to first verify if this is true.My mother say that is correct.
10. I cannot find anymore information about this town, perhaps it was known under a different name or thename or spelling of the town is inaccurate?The spelling is inacurate. The also misspelled my father's name. Americans are lousy spellers.Try 'Moson Szent Peter'I also saw it referred to elsewhere as 'Mosonszentpéter' and as 'Moson-Szent-Péter 'http://www.the-burgenland-bunch.org/V_Histories/Janossomorja.htmMy mother said the town was on the Austrian border and Lotte Kuttner spoke only German. Regina spoke only a little bit of Hungarian.Maybe you know how to fix the information in the Leslie Blau entry of the US Holocaust Archive. And as I mentioned, it was a multiple entry, not just for Jozsef Kuttner, but also for his parents, brother and sister. I remember we sent all of their photos.
Thanks,Reuven Chaim KleinP.S. While checking UJVIDEK, I came upon this 1944 Serb on Hungarian horror story.Unless I'm missing something, it had nothing to do with Jews.The barbarity of it is amazing. http://www.hungarianhistory.com/lib/cseres/cseres05.htmI mentioned this to my mother. She said the Jews were butchered in Ujvidek.Suprisingly (or not) there is no mention of it on this website. The Szerbs there were good to the Jews and tried to save them. The Slovaks were the bad guys. She said Mariska and Mitzi were in a group taken to the shores of the Danube and were ready to be shot, when a last minute order to stop saved their lives. They went to Bonyhad right afterwards their horrific experience. Follow-up is needed here to find out if this was at the beginning of the war or after it, and to find out what happened to Mitzi?By the way, Mariska Neni (who lived in Pittsburgh) wrote out her autobiography inlong hand. We have a copy of it. It might be worthwhile for you to read it. The early yearsmay hold more of the information you are looking for.
WEISZ Family information
I am sorry for taking so long to get back to you, but it is very hard to coordinate with relatives halfway across the world. I had my father's first cousin speak to his mother (my grandmother's sister) to get me more information about the family's history. Basically, Mor (Moishe) Weisz from Mórágy married Regina Galandauer and they moved to Vebasz. They had four children: Mariska (Mary Guggenheim from Pittsburg), Misi (who married Kate and lived in Israel), Mitzi, and Deborah. After Mor Weisz died, then the Weisz family moved to Ujvidek. Deborah was my great-grandmother, her husband was Miksa (Mayer) Kuttner and they lived after their marriage in Bonyhad. I hope this clarifies the my family history.
RCK
Monday, August 06, 2012
Re: QUESTIONS: historical information about Kuttner family
Thank you so much for helping me get the information that I asked for. I sent an email to the curator of the US Holocaust Memorial Museum to inform him of the mistakes on the description of the pictures (there are five pictures, see below)
I have some follow-up questions about certain points which I still would like to clarify. If you can please help me get these answers as well. I will try to make the questions clearer like you did to my previous questions.
1. What I meant to ask before, even though it was unclear, was that I found a record of the marriage of Miksa KUTTNER to Aranka WEISZ so I was wondering if it is possible that maybe Aranka is another name for Deborah somehow (maybe one is a Jewish name and one is Hungarian like Mayer and Miksa)?
1. What I meant to ask before, even though it was unclear, was that I found a record of the marriage of Miksa KUTTNER to Aranka WEISZ so I was wondering if it is possible that maybe Aranka is another name for Deborah somehow (maybe one is a Jewish name and one is Hungarian like Mayer and Miksa)?
2. You mentioned that Mor WEISZ's wife was Regina GALANDAUER. Was she related to the GALANDAUER family from Bonyhad? If so, how?
3. You mentioned that the Miksa Kuttner who taught at Tab was a first cousin of our Miksa Kuttner. Do we know exactly how they were first cousins? I assume that it means that our Miksa Kuttner's father Joseph Kuttner was a brother to that Miksa Kuttner's father, do we know his name? Where they both from the town of Mosonszentpeter?
If there are any more pieces of information that Laci baci hasn't mentioned in his book that you feel are important to understanding our family's history, please tell me.
Here are the links to all the pictures in the set:
If there are any more pieces of information that Laci baci hasn't mentioned in his book that you feel are important to understanding our family's history, please tell me.
Here are the links to all the pictures in the set:
Thank you so much,
RC Klein
On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 10:37 AM, Leslie Barany <lesbarany@aol.com> wrote:
Dear Reuven,Got some information for you.It's raw data from my mother.LesNO. Miksa was not Weiss, not unless he took his wife's family name, which we know he didn't. He liked the sound of Kuttner and kept it.QUESTIONS FROM REUVENOn Aug 5, 2012, at 3:16 AM, RCK wrote:
As many of you know, one of my hobbies is genealogical research. Recently I have been trying to look into the KUTTNER side of my family, I found some interesting things and perhaps you can be of help if you have some information to contribute to my research.1. First of all, in the JewishGen Yizkor Book Necrology Hungarian Database I found mention of the marriage of Miksa and Aranka WEISZ. Is this our grandfather?NO, that does not follow in the tradition of Talmudic logic. What are you smoking?2. I know that Mayer is Miksa, but does it make sense to say that Deborah WEISZ is Aranka WEISZ?Same thing I am ;-?YES. My mother was very helpful.3. From Sori neni's story I know that Devorah Kuttner was originally from Ujvidek, do we have any other information about the WEISZ family from that side?Weiss Mor (Moishe) was the father of Deborah KuttnerGalandauer Regina (Rivka) was his wife.Sori neni was a little mistaken. They were from Verbasz.Actually, Moishe was a hazan, originally from a town near Bonyhad(called Mórágy went to Verbasz where he marriedRegina Galandauer. They had four children, Mariska, Mitzi, Deborah and Misi.Misi married Kate and left Verbasz for Israel. Mariska married and moved to Pittsburgh in the USA. Not sure about Mitzi, you will have to follow up on that.It was only after Regina's husband, Moishe, passed away that she (I assume with her daughters) moved to Ujvidek. Verbasz was somewhere on the border with Yugoslavia.The border kept shifting and sometimes it was one country or the other.Kate & Misi bacsi in Israel are gone. They had a daughter, Sonja, and a son, Freddy. Agi knows them, if you want to pursue that line of inquiry. Yossi has also met them when he was a child. I think they lived in Beit Zait just outside Jerusalem. They have kids and grand kids of their own.4. Are there any relatives from that side of the family that might have more information?I gave you Devorah Kuttner's parents' name above.5. Also does anyone know what were the (Hebrew and Secular) names of the parents and grandparents ofMayer and Devorah Kuttner?Miksa (Mayer) Kuttner's parents were Joseph and Lotte.Mayer also had a brother, Sandor. His wife's name was Ilus.They had a son, Shaya, who didn't 'come back', and a daugher, Vali.Vali married Yossi Bilitzer and they live in Afula, Israel.No information is available on Miksa Mayer's grandparents.That's expecting too much, but I am sure you will find it.Sorry, Grasshopper, NO. The Yizkor Book of Papa is mistaken. They were not father and son but first cousins. They both went to teacher's school in Papa.6. Also, I found in the Yizkor Book for the town of Papa that it mentions a list of teachers that had something to do with the town of Papa, and in the list it says "MIKSA KUTTNER Senior was the principal and the teacher of Tab, Somogy County MIKSA KUTTNER Junior worked at the orthodox school of Bonyhád" (see here for the exact page). This seems to imply that Miksa Kuttner's father was also named Miksa Kuttner and was a teacher in the town of Tab. Is this indeed my great-great-grandfather?I gave it to you above. Your great-great-grandparents on the Kuttner side were7. Do we have any more information about him?Joseph and Lotte Kuttner.If you read the Papa Yizkor Book carefully, you will note that the city was famed for its school for teachers. They came from all over and upon graduation went to teaching positions all over.8. Also, I haven't been able to figure out why this is mentioned in the Yizkor book for the town of Papa, what does this have to do with that town?My mother say that is correct.9. Also, I found on the website for the US Holocaust Memorial Museum (click here) a picture of Jozsef Kuttner z"l donated to the Museum by Mr. and Mrs. Blau. In the description of the picture, it is mentioned that our common ancestor, Miksa (Mayer) Kuttner was born in Mosonszenpeter, Hungary. To the best of my recollection, this fact is not mentioned in Mr. Blau's, so I would like to first verify if this is true.The spelling is inacurate. The also misspelled my father's name. Americans are lousy spellers.10. I cannot find anymore information about this town, perhaps it was known under a different name or thename or spelling of the town is inaccurate?Try 'Moson Szent Peter'
I also saw it referred to elsewhere as 'Mosonszentpéter' and as 'Moson-Szent-Péter 'http://www.the-burgenland-bunch.org/V_Histories/Janossomorja.htm
My mother said the town was on the Austrian border and Lotte Kuttner spoke only German.Regina spoke only a little bit of Hungarian.
Maybe you know how to fix the information in the Leslie Blau entry of the US Holocaust Archive. And as I mentioned, it was a multiple entry, not just for Jozsef Kuttner, but also for his parents, brother and sister. I remember we sent all of their photos.
Thanks,Reuven Chaim KleinP.S. While checking UJVIDEK, I came upon this 1944 Serb on Hungarian horror story.Unless I'm missing something, it had nothing to do with Jews.The barbarity of it is amazing. http://www.hungarianhistory.com/lib/cseres/cseres05.htmhttp://www.dvhh.org/batschka/village/index.htm#V
See: Neu-Werbaß / Neu-Werbass (German)Verbasz aka Vrbas (German)And if you are looking for a souvenir, there is this:
Correction in picture descriptions
I was looking at some pictures on the USHMM website, it has been called to my attention that there are two typos in a description of the pictures. The first is the name of the town which is written as "Mosonszenpeter" in the description, this is a mistake and it should actually say "Mosonszentpeter". Also, in the description a name is written as "Erno Baranay", but this too is a typo and it should say "Erno Barany".
These typos are found on the following pages:
Thank you,
Reuven Chaim Klein
(on behalf of Leslie and Sara Blau, Gyongyi Barany, and Leslie Barany)
Sunday, August 05, 2012
Re: Mosonszentpeter
My comments are inserted between yours.
On Sun, Aug 5, 2012 at 12:30 PM, Sandor Bacskai <eretzhagar@gmail.com> wrote:
Mr. R. Ch. Klein,I don't really know anything about my great-grandfather Miska Kuttner's parents, but I did find on Friday this webpage which seems to imply that Miska Kuttner from Bonyhad was a son of Miska Kuttner for Tab.I think, that is not sure they were father and son, but maybe grandfather and grandson.
The redactor of the Yizkor book certainly linked them together (perhaps because they had the same name), but to me I don't even know that doing so is at all justified. Miksa is a common name, so it could be possible that the two are completely unrelated. I heard from a survivor from Bonyhad (at this year's hazkara) that my great-grandfather although he was a teacher in Bonyhad, he was not originally from Bonyhad. I have yet to confirm this with anyone in my family. Also it makes sense that a father and son wouldn't have the same name because Ashkenazim just don't do that (especially because they seem to have both lived at the same time, so you cannot say her was named after his father).
I know on Miksa Kuttner in Tab from a 1927 directory, what listed the Shomre Shabos merchants and Jewish community leaders of some towns in Hungary.In Tab, there was mentioned Mor Kuttner (the cashier of the Jewish Community), and Miksa Kuttner (the secretary of the Jewish Community).
Both Mor and Miksa were also listed in the 1937 and 1938 lists of Tomche Yeshivot movement (list of bal-batim people who paid for the yeshivas).This moment, I don't have more info on this Miksa Kuttner.
Interesting, If you find anything, you have my email address.
Regarding Bonyhad, the book Shem Hagedolim m' Eretz Hagar says a R' Yisroel Kuttner (Kuttna), who served as Dayan in Bonyhad, where he died in 1872.I don't know his family tree.
I have this sefer, what page is it on? This interests me not because of a genealogical lead (as I already explained, I have reason to believe that the Kuttner family did not originate in Bonyhad, rather my great-grandfather moved there), but because I am interesting in learning about the rabbinic history of Bonyhad (as I discussed at my speech last year at the Bonyhad Hazkara 2011 and touched at this year's Hazkara).
The pre-1895 Jewish records of Mosonszentpeter and the 1895-1944 civil records of Tab, probably could have important data on him and his family.Do you have any more information about the Miksa Kuttner from Tab? How would I be able to find out about this?
Does JewishGen have these records? How can I get a hold of them? According to this page, he Miksa Kuttner was born there on December 1, 1894.
- - - - - -I think, we changed emails 7-8 years ago about Munkacs cemetery photos? You are a descendant of the Davidkovo Rav "Shenos Chaim, right?
Yes we did. I am impressed that you have such a memory! Your letter is archived in my webpage here and is dated June 18 2004. That feels like so long ago... Do you happen to still have those pictures? I don't think I realized the significance of your find then.
Regards,Sandor
Thank you so much for you all of your help,
Reuven Chaim Klein
On Aug 4, 2012, at 8:37 PM, RCK wrote:Thank you for your help.I don't really know anything about my great-grandfather Miska Kuttner's parents, but I did find on Friday this webpage which seems to imply that Miska Kuttner from Bonyhad was a son of Miska Kuttner for Tab. Do you have any more information about the Miksa Kuttner from Tab? How would I be able to find out about this?RCKOn Sat, Aug 4, 2012 at 12:33 PM, Sandor Bacskai <eretzhagar@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Reuven Chaim Klein,Mosonszentpeter now is a part of town Janossomorja, located in former Moson County till 1950, and in present Gyor-Sopron-Moson County.It's 5-6 kilometers close to border of Austria.Regarding Miksa Kuttner, could he be same person who was a Jewish Community secretary in Tab?Sincerely,Sandor Bacskai genealogistBudapest, Hungary----------------------------------------------------------------------
Subject: Mosonszenpeter, Hungary
From: RCK <rachack@futurecities.com>
Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2012 04:57:28 -0700 (PDT)
X-Message-Number: 3
I found on the website of the US Holocaust Memorial Museum that my great
grandfather Miksa Kuttner was born in a town called Mosonszenpeter, Hungary. I
Googled the name of the town, but I couldn't find anything about it. Does anyone
know if there is another name for this town?
Here is the link where I found this information:
http://digitalassets.ushmm.org/photoarchives/detail.aspx?id=1162086&search=&index=6
Thank You,
Reuven Chaim Klein
Genealogical Researcher
historical info about Kuttner family
As many of you know, one of my hobbies is genealogical research. Recently I have been trying to look into the KUTTNER side of my family, I found some interesting things and perhaps you can be of help if you have some information to contribute to my research. First of all, in the JewishGen Yizkor Book Necrology Hungarian Database I found mention of the marriage of Miksa and Aranka WEISZ. Is this our grandfather? I know that Mayer is Miksa, but does it make sense to say that Deborah WEISZ is Aranka WEISZ? From Sori neni's story I know that Devorah Kuttner was originally from Ujvidek, do we have any other information about the WEISZ family from that side? Are there any relatives from that side of the family that might have more information? Also does anyone know what were the (Hebrew and Secular) names of the parents and grandparents of Mayer and Devorah Kuttner?
Also, I found in the Yizkor Book for the town of Papa that it mentions a list of teachers that had something to do with the town of Papa, and in the list it says "MIKSA KUTTNER Senior was the principal and the teacher of Tab, Somogy County MIKSA KUTTNER Junior worked at the orthodox school of Bonyhád" (see here for the exact page). This seems to imply that Miksa Kuttner's father was also named Miksa Kuttner and was a teacher in the town of Tab. Is this indeed my great-great-grandfather? Do we have any more information about him? Also, I haven't been able to figure out why this is mentioned in the Yizkor book for the town of Papa, what does this have to do with that town?
Also, I found on the website for the US Holocaust Memorial Museum (click here) a picture of Jozsef Kuttner z"l donated to the Museum by Mr. and Mrs. Blau. In the description of the picture, it is mentioned that our common ancestor, Miksa (Mayer) Kuttner was born in Mosonszenpeter, Hungary. To the best of my recollection, this fact is not mentioned in Mr. Blau's, so I would like to first verify if this is true. I cannot find anymore information about this town, perhaps it was known under a different name or the name or spelling of the town is inaccurate?
Thanks,
Reuven Chaim Klein
Sunday, April 15, 2012
Re: My Grandmother was Kathaline Weisz
Did you get any more information?
On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 1:45 AM, Karen Geiger <akdawson98@aol.com> wrote:
Thank you. I've e-mailed my cousin in California and Israel to get more information on her. than what I might have.On Mar 14, 2012, at 1:22 PM, RCK wrote:It could be, I don't really know so much of that side of my family. If you send me more information, I can forward it to my grandmother and see if it fits.RCKOn Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 10:27 PM, Karen Geiger <akdawson98@aol.com> wrote:
My grandmother was born in Ujvedek. She married my grandfather and moved to Hungary. One of her children was also born there thought my mother was born in Hungary. I only know that my mother remembers as a child going to see her grandmother in Ujvedek when she was dying. Could we be related. I have the address that my grandmother's family lived at in Ujvedek. My e-mail address is akdawson98@aol.com
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