Monday, August 06, 2012

Re: QUESTIONS: historical information about Kuttner family

Thank you so much for helping me get the information that I asked for. I sent an email to the curator of the US Holocaust Memorial Museum to inform him of the mistakes on the description of the pictures (there are five pictures, see below)

I have some follow-up questions about certain points which I still would like to clarify. If you can please help me get these answers as well. I will try to make the questions clearer like you did to my previous questions.

1. What I meant to ask before, even though it was unclear, was that I found a record of the marriage of Miksa KUTTNER to Aranka WEISZ so I was wondering if it is possible that maybe Aranka is another name for Deborah somehow (maybe one is a Jewish name and one is Hungarian like Mayer and Miksa)?

2. You mentioned that Mor WEISZ's wife was Regina GALANDAUER. Was she related to the GALANDAUER family from Bonyhad? If so, how?

3. You mentioned that the Miksa Kuttner who taught at Tab was a first cousin of our Miksa Kuttner. Do we know exactly how they were first cousins? I assume that it means that our Miksa Kuttner's father Joseph Kuttner was a brother to that Miksa Kuttner's father, do we know his name? Where they both from the town of Mosonszentpeter?

If there are any more pieces of information that Laci baci hasn't mentioned in his book that you feel are important to understanding our family's history, please tell me.

Here are the links to all the pictures in the set:

Thank you so much,
RC Klein

On Mon, Aug 6, 2012 at 10:37 AM, Leslie Barany <> wrote:
Dear Reuven,

Got some information for you.
It's raw data from my mother. 



On Aug 5, 2012, at 3:16 AM, RCK wrote:

As many of you know, one of my hobbies is genealogical research. Recently I have been trying to look into the KUTTNER side of my family, I found some interesting things and perhaps you can be of help if you have some information to contribute to my research.

1. First of all, in the JewishGen Yizkor Book Necrology Hungarian Database I found mention of the marriage of Miksa and Aranka WEISZIs this our grandfather?

NO. Miksa was not Weiss, not unless he took his wife's family name, which we know he didn't. He liked the sound of Kuttner and kept it.

2. I know that Mayer is Miksa, but does it make sense to say that Deborah WEISZ is Aranka WEISZ?

NO, that does not follow in the tradition of Talmudic logic. What are you smoking?
Same thing I am ;-?

3. From Sori neni's story I know that Devorah Kuttner was originally from Ujvidek
, do we have any other information about the WEISZ family from that side?

YES. My mother was very helpful. 
Weiss Mor (Moishe) was the father of Deborah Kuttner
Galandauer Regina (Rivka) was his wife.

Sori neni was a little mistaken. They were from Verbasz.
Actually, Moishe was a hazan, originally from a town near Bonyhad
(called Mórágy went to Verbasz where he married
Regina Galandauer. They had four children, Mariska, Mitzi, Deborah and Misi.
Misi married Kate and left Verbasz for Israel. Mariska married and moved to Pittsburgh in the USA. Not sure about Mitzi, you will have to follow up on that. 

It was only after Regina's husband, Moishe, passed away that she (I assume with her daughters) moved to Ujvidek. Verbasz was somewhere on the border with Yugoslavia. 
The border kept shifting and sometimes it was one country or the other.

4. Are there any relatives from that side of the family that might have more information?

Kate & Misi bacsi in Israel are gone. They had a daughter, Sonja, and a son, Freddy. Agi knows them, if you want to pursue that line of inquiry. Yossi has also met them when he was a child. I think they lived in Beit Zait just outside Jerusalem. They have kids and grand kids of their own. 

5. Also does anyone know what were the (Hebrew and Secular) names of the parents and grandparents of
Mayer and Devorah Kuttner?

I gave you Devorah Kuttner's parents' name above.
Miksa (Mayer) Kuttner's parents were Joseph and Lotte.
Mayer also had a brother, Sandor. His wife's name was Ilus.
They had a son, Shaya, who didn't 'come back', and a daugher, Vali. 
Vali married Yossi Bilitzer and they live in Afula, Israel.

No information is available on Miksa Mayer's grandparents. 
That's expecting too much, but I am sure you will find it.

6. Also, I found in the Yizkor Book for the town of Papa that it mentions a list of teachers that had something to do with the town of Papa, and in the list it says "MIKSA KUTTNER Senior was the principal and the teacher of Tab, Somogy County MIKSA KUTTNER Junior worked at the orthodox school of Bonyhád" (see here for the exact page). This seems to imply that Miksa Kuttner's father was also named Miksa Kuttner and was a teacher in the town of Tab. Is this indeed my great-great-grandfather?

Sorry, Grasshopper, NO. The Yizkor Book of Papa is mistaken. They were not father and son but first cousins. They both went to teacher's school in Papa. 

7. Do we have any more information about him?

I gave it to you above. Your great-great-grandparents on the Kuttner side were
Joseph and Lotte Kuttner. 

8. Also, I haven't been able to figure out why this is mentioned in the Yizkor book for the town of Papa, what does this have to do with that town?

If you read the Papa Yizkor Book carefully, you will note that the city was famed for its school for teachers. They came from all over and upon graduation went to teaching positions all over.


9. Also, I found on the website for the US Holocaust Memorial Museum (click here) a picture of Jozsef Kuttner z"l donated to the Museum by Mr. and Mrs. Blau. In the description of the picture, it is mentioned that our common ancestor, Miksa (Mayer) Kuttner was born in Mosonszenpeter, Hungary. To the best of my recollection, this fact is not mentioned in Mr. Blau's, so I would like to first verify if this is true.

My mother say that is correct.

10. I cannot find anymore information about this town, perhaps it was known under a different name or the
name or spelling of the town is inaccurate?

The spelling is inacurate. The also misspelled my father's name. Americans are lousy spellers.

Try 'Moson Szent Peter' 

I also saw it referred to elsewhere as  'Mosonszentpéter' and as 'Moson-Szent-Péter '

My mother said the town was on the Austrian border and Lotte Kuttner spoke only German.
Regina spoke only a little bit of Hungarian.

Maybe you know how to fix the information in the Leslie Blau entry of the US Holocaust Archive. And as I mentioned, it was a multiple entry, not just for Jozsef Kuttner, but also for his parents, brother and sister. I remember we sent all of their photos.

Reuven Chaim Klein

P.S. While checking UJVIDEK, I came upon this 1944 Serb on Hungarian horror story. 
Unless I'm missing something, it had nothing to do with Jews.
Verbasz aka Vrbas  (German)
See: Neu-Werbaß / Neu-Werbass (German)

And if you are looking for a souvenir, there is this:

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